March 5, 2009

Why should pure classes, have an advantage ??

Stumbled upon this post on the forums, by the dear Ghostcrawler.

Ghostcrawler :

Rogues, mages, warlocks and hunters should be doing the highest dps, if you assume all other things are equal. Other things are never equal. Gear, skill, group buffs and encounter (in PvE) all matter a lot. In PvP, highest damage matters a lot less than specific abilities that let you control or break control.

There will be fights where warriors are on top because the situations favor them. There will be fights where the shamans or priests are on top.

Arms and Fury warriors should be mixed in with Elemental and Enhancement shamans, Shadow priests, Retribution paladins, Feral and Balance druids, and 3 types of DKs. .........

Does this mean that hybrid classes not will be able to push the top dps ? Does this mean that because dualspecc comes, they have a legit reason to say. You have the option to be a tank or healer as well. So you cant be top dps ?
What about the people who did choose to play as retribution all the time, and have no intention to go any other specc. Is that just there loss ?

Leads me back to the "bring the player not the class". If that is there mantra now, will there then be no more dps tjecks ? As if you bring the player, a retribution paladin. But they are bound to make the 5% less damage. Then either you wont make it, or the raid bringing only pure dps classes, will never have a problem with the dps tjecks. How are they gonna balance those encounters ?

Cant figure out why, they dont make all dps make the same amount of damage. Then the player that only wanna play Retribution, have equal terms of performance than every one else doing dps.

I know people now will say, but I play a pure dps class. So I dont have the option to play a healer if I want or a tank. No, you dont. But you never had. I have always had the option to do so. That was one of the reasons I choosed the class in the first place. BUT I have never been able to do it at the same time. BUT why should I then be punished for it ? It brings me to think. Do people play there class because it at the time they rolled it, was the top dps class ? And not because they WANTED to play the class ?

I cant figure out the line in blizzards way to balance the game at the moment. It seems to me that they are between to cliffs. On one side they hold on to the old terms, hybrid dps/pure dps. And on the other side they have the new mantra "Bring the player not the class". And cant seem to dare take the big step and go all out on the new mantra. Am I the only one thinking this ?


  1. Interesting argument, I generally agree. But from the other side of the debate, duel spec seems to be causing a lot of hybrid envy among anxious 'pure' dps classes. You yourself point out there should be no worry about hybrid dps because we can't perform duel roles at the same time. But the pure classes seem convinced that we'll nick all their raid spots because we'll be jumping in and out of healing and taking all through a raid. It's irrational if you ask me, but it's heart-felt.

    It may just be coincidental, but there does seem to be an awful lot more hybrid dps on my server since the expansion - and I put some of that down at least in part to how Blizzard has buffed hybrid potential. Very few locks and rogues around now, but whether that's because they aren't getting raid spots or don't like their class at the moment, I don't know.

  2. We don't want an advantage, but we want a reason to exist. If hybrids do the same damage as pure dps, provide the same utility and ALSO can switch to healing or tanking whenever needed (different bosses in a multi-boss instance take different setups) I sincerely can't see any reason to bring us to the raid. Everyone wants to feel needed, wanted. Mages too. But the direction things have developped I can't see any demand for our services in the future.

    The situation was completely different when we rolled our toons. It's no wonder some of us feel a bit cheated.

  3. I can see the point from both sides. My own ofc, and yours as well Larisa. But im very confused to pick a side.

    But we have to see it all in perspective. For a hybrid to be able to perform as another task. He will still have to have gear for it. Gear he most likely will need alot of work to get. Lets take my own character. I have been trying to net me a dualspecc set, tank gear.
    First off I thought that it would be rather easy. But not alot of runs I have been in, have had pieces just dissed. So what I have been doing to get me that ekstra set.Is to respecc and actually play as prot, to have prio on the gear in the runs.

    So for the hybrids to perform as there dualspecc. We actually also have to put close to double time into our char. Is it then still unfair ?
    All the time we use on getting that ekstra set, you could problaly level another char to be able to fill one more role ?

    We also have to remember even though the option is there. Its not all who will take use of it. I know many Retribution paladins, who will not switch over. They have choosen to play as dps, pure dps. Not a hybrid. So they will not gain an advantage in being able to net a spot as hybrid. But they will net 5% less damage. Is that fair ?

    They have as you, choosen from day one to play as dps. And dps only.

    I hate this window for comments, hard to get an overview on what you have writen... :)

    Hope it makes sense.

    (And this is not any personal rant against you in any way Larisa... :). Its just trying to highlight aspects of the problem.)

  4. Hopefully things will get balanced out in a way that everyone can be happy.

    I'm happy with the current state of dps disparity. If I work hard, I can beat any face-rolling mage in any encounter. I get beat by equally hard working mage by about 5% in about 90% of the encounters.

  5. Hi Impadin!

    A quick comment: Ghostcrawler also said - in that post, though you didn't quote that part - that (the named classes should do better dps) when all circumstances are equal, meaning gear, skill level and such.

    He continued to say that circumstances never are equal. His point beeing that the classes should be so close to each other dps-wise that a good pala could out-dps a mediocre rogue any day.

    So flex it baby, we will still see ya up there, bubbleboy. Giggle and love


  6. Oh yes you did quote that part, my mistake... mumble mumble.

    Anyways; warlocks should pawn! I say no more.

    Vard, the selective reader


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